Is Microsoft Office Adware?

An anonymous reader writes "Office may fall under Microsoft's own definition of adware. It links to third-party commercial add-ons, includes up-selling promos, requires cookies for certain functions, and collects technical information. While this is like a normal day on the web, should the commercial office suite be held to a different standard and possibly be considered adware? The article also notes that clicking advertising links in Office will bring up Internet Explorer, regardless of whether or not it is the default browser. We discussed Microsoft's decision to turn Works into adware a few months ago.

No but this post is

SMOKE MARLBORO!!!

OOo

I think I've realized something about Microsoft: They really want us to NOT want to use Microsoft products. I finally get it -- It's not sufficient for them to own the market; in order to feel fully dominant, they must own it against our will. It's as though they think that if we wanted to use their products because they were good for us and worked in our best interest, it would not be true show of their power, for we'd be rational in wanting such products. Only if they can force their software down our throats whether we want it or not, do they have full assurance that their power is real.

Re:

well, I looked at the breakdown of moderation on this post. As usual, the antimicrosoft crowd modded this as insightful because I fear they truly believe that MS doesn't want us to use there software. Not a single Funny moderation? How does this happen. The saracasm in this post is radiating "mod me funny".... that would also allow the offtopic moderaters to rest easy (though they should have a field day with this post)...

Re:

Because it's not a joke. Microsoft are selling out their client base to third parties while they continue to have a client base. They've got multibillion dollar back room deals, they're being paid to put everyones PC under a centralized lock and key system, and if they succeed, they'll get a percentage. It's not like it's a secret.

Re:OOo

well, the problem is about how you define who MS's client base is... it certainly is not the consumers who end up buying their machines - those are just annoyances that they must deal with. Their clientbase is system builders and more recently content developers. They will cater to those making the content that moves the boxes. They are essentially no different than ASUS or any other component provider (except for their monopoly and willingness to abuse it). These companies do things according to what there clients (the computer builders) want so long as it fits there goals. The fact that these eventually move on is not there problems. if people want MS to lose there monopoly, pressure needs to be put on companies like Dell and HP to push pressure upstream for better hardware support in alternative operating systems. Right now, the lockin ability that MS provides these people is important (i.e. Dell software that ships with there systems isn't so portable thanks to measures taken by MS). This is also why they can push adware on one hand while simultaneously sell software that takes other peoples adware off your system.

Re:OOo

A classic example of this was when IE used to redo the favourites in the 'Media' bookmark and add in those entries for companies who paid an advertising fee. Very annoying, I remember rather than continually having to delete those entries I did not want, I created a Multimedia heading and simply deleted the Media heading at every new upgrade, well, at least up until replacement with firefox.

Then their were the wizards to facilitate your Internet connection that would only work with ISP who had paid an advertising fee to M$.

So really it is nothing new, same old M$ just screwing over the customer at every opportunity ;).

Re:OOo

Ok, here's an example:

Trusted Computing support in Vista, which brings nothing to the public, but causes their computer to cease to be under their control, allowing such things as:

Remote censorship after the fact
Unbreakable vendor lock-in
Draconian digital rights management
Inability to use custom software on your own hardware

Who demanded this? The US Department of Defense and the large media corporations.

Does it serve the public or the end user? No.

Aside from the dangers of what it does when it works right, does it inconvenience the user in unrelated ways? Yes, it consumes resources with no return and causes general bugginess in such a large variety of software that Vista is being refused by the general public despite their ignorance of these larger issues, simply because of the side effects.

Does it tie into a larger agenda to control the worlds information, tax every creative work, rewrite history, and create a system of control that would give would be despots wet dreams? You're fucking right it does.

If you were to take a random sample of a hundred people out of your typical mall and explain the technology and what it does, do you think anyone would ask for it? Anyone at all?

Yet they spent billions of dollars over many years conspiring to bring this technology to our homes. Why do you suppose they did that?

Because they were motivated by interests who wish to control the population at large without regard for what is legal.

They think of their customer base as cows, to be owned, controlled and sold to private interests.

That example about selling ad space in IE is so benign compared to what's going on these days that it actually makes a person wistfully think of how nice Microsoft used to be, relatively speaking.

Re:

The best humor has a large element of truth to it. In this case, it was completely true.

The fact that it upsets MS fanbois is a bonus.

Re: What MS wants to own

I finally get it -- It's not sufficient for them to own the market; in order to feel fully dominant, they must own it against our will.

They want ~your will~ itself. Microsoft wants to own the user. Every time the user starts a Redmond application, the application is Microsoft territory just like an embassy.

And you had better have a passport, because on entrance you and your computer become subjects of El Presidente Señor Lanzero de Sillónes Ballmero.

Re: What MS wants to own

Almost everything Microsoft does makes a whole lot of more sense if you look at it from the standpoint that they hate their customers, but still want their money. I have never worked with products that exude more of a sense of contempt than those from Microsoft, and Vista is possibly the best example.

Re: What MS wants to own

they hate their customers

they hate their licensees

There, fixed it for ya. The term "customer" leaves me with the impression that you've actually bought something and you can do want you want with it. I don't think this is how M$ sees it. Bill lets you use his s/w for a while if you behave and follow the rules.

Don't think so

I got a free copy of Office 2007 Pro from the "Power Together" Vista + Office giveaway. Haven't noticed any ads anywhere, it sure doesn't meet my definition of ad ware.

Re:

I know people who have paid $400 for it, that doesn't meet my or their definition either. No, MSO is not adware. It may 'suggest' that the user do it the MS way, and might try to pry more money out of the end user, but that does not make it adware.

Re:Don't think so

Try typing a math equation with Equation Editor (which in itself is a decently capable equation editor, if not a bit unwieldy). As soon as you close your equation, it will pop up an advertisement for MathWorks or some other bullshit "upgraded" equation editor. Seriously MS, if I thought a feature was lacking I'd seek 3rd-party plugins myself, you don't need to pimp this to me.

Re:

Yes, exactly. TFA actually includes a similar example (btw, who knows what kind of kickback scheme is behind this,
but you can bet there is one). You throw in the fact that calls home with usage/tracking data, and you know what?
We're technically talking about something very similar to adware.

Of course, most joe-sixpack people don't care. This suggests that there's some convergence of advertising and
application functionality in our future (see also: Google Apps)

Re:Don't think so

OK, I just tried it. I didn't get an ad or a suggestion that I try some other product. I was using Office 2007 Pro Plus and inserted the equation in Word. Maybe I have to have the "internet services" turned on? I'm sure you've seen it - I am not contradicting you there - I just am not seeing it on my copy and I would actually LIKE to see it as I am in desktop design (3rd level design with a small amount of support) and anything my customers may see, I would like to know about first. Any idea how to reproduce this?

Re:

I remember buying MathType in 1997 or so because I found it in Word. I was grateful as I wouldn't have known about MathType otherwise (then).

I guess my point is that it was helpful (for both me and the third party) since it led me to find a program I used a lot from a small 3rd party.

It is no less adware just because the ads may be useful.

I hated having to find programs ($20 or $30 for something I needed to use once so I didn't do it) though that did what Office should have been able to do (I really can't remember what now but I remember being really angry because they were simple things).

And these ads, if they are indeed useful and not annoying (and remember, all ads in any kind of adware are useful to somebody; if nobody ever clicked them, they wouldn't exist in the first place or would die out soon), only make it easier to find that kind of functionality elsewhere, for if it were built in into Office, there would be no need for the ads.

Re:Don't think so

I totally agree. Been running Office 2007 for a year and a half - I was a beta tester, like thousands of others. I was one of the first to install it after it came out, because I needed to evaluate it. We are now preparing to role it out to our users. I do not use Excel myself, but have heard some rave reviews from co-workers who like some of the new features. I use Outlook 2007, Word 2007 and Powerpoint 2007 quite often (Word and Outlook on a daily basis). NEVER had an issue. Even in Powerpoint, when I turn on the option to pull clipart off of Microsoft's website, never had a problem. Insert a video file into a Powerpoint presentation? No problem. Convert a bulleted list into Smart Art? No problem. Insert tables and formulas into Word? Setup Rss Feeds in Outlook? Etc, Etc, etc. I consider myself a Power User of Word, Outlook and Powerpoint, and have NEVER had an issue with Office 2003, 2004 for the mac, 2007, or 2008 doing anything that you mentioned. I would suggest running Spybot or AdAware and stop blaming MS for your bad surfing habits and inability to remove spyware and adware on your own system.

Of *course* not!

Is Microsoft Office Adware?

Of course not - If so, Windows Defender would block it. Which it doesn't. So no problem, right?

Sounds OK to me

This is the low-end PC market. Knocking $40 off the manufacturer's build costs is probably major for them in this market. I know, Open Office, etc, but Works 7 (the last one I've seen) is actually pretty decent for what most people use, and the naive user who's buying these PCs just knows "Microsoft" for "Officey" stuff.

I would have been glad to get a free shrink wrap Works a few years ago. My mom was sending me documents in Works Word Processor format and I had to go buy Works to read them. Trust me, teaching "Save As . . . scroll down to Word... " wasn't practical with her at the time. It was a lot less painful to just go buy Works.

Finally, I hate to tell you, but the Works 7 Word Processor isn't actually that bad. It looks exactly like Word did a few years ago, and has all the features most people use.

Re:Sounds OK to me

It looks exactly like Word did a few years ago, and has all the features most people use.

Yes, and there are a lot of people that wish Word still looked like it did a few years ago.

Re:

You did your mom a disservice by not recommending Open Office to her. And I'm not saying that because I'm an Open Source evangelist. She's going to have a heck of time exchanging documents with others. For the longest time I didn't even know MS Works still existed. I though (well, hoped and prayed) it had died like 10 years ago until I started working at a college and a faculty member came to me with a .wps file that she needed to print. I had to look it up. Then I had to tell her we didn't have any softwa

Let the market decide

Perhaps the manufacture should just give a genuine itemized invoice rather than bundling and let the market decide.

Windows?

Wouldn't Windows fall under adware? Looking at the checklist it seems like they all apply... Especially Vista.

On a side note, when I click on an email address in my Windows Mail, it opens Office Outlook. No, it is not set as my default mailer :(

Re:

to rip off & steal, buying something for a buck, & selling it for 3 to PROFIT, etc. et al

      This is how Microsoft was BORN. I suggest you revise the company's history a little.

I read it as...

I read it as "Badware". My ad.

I guess we need to consider...

...Leopard to be adware as well. My copy came with links to iDisk/.mac and trial versions of iWorks with a few files that default to opening in Pages to get you hooked. While I can get rid of iWeb and iWorks, I cannot get rid of the iDisk link in the connect to menu item. Now that I think of it, iTunes is part of this whole adware strategy as well. Then there's Quicktime. Don't have the Pro version? Apple is going to tell you what you're missing in the menus by ghosting list items and putting a "Pro" tag next to everything. Personally I find this far more deplorable then a few links in what amounts to nothing more than an interactive/context sensitive help "palette". While many rabid anti-MS geeks on Slashdot might not find these links very helpful, some typical office workers will (and I'm sure Microsoft has the user studies to back this position up, unlike the typical Slashbot that has only anecdotal evidence they like to compare to actual data).

Re:I guess we need to consider...

So any software which contains links to its creator's webpage (or its own, if one has been created) is adware?

You're right: based on the summary and Microsoft's description Leopard and office would fall under the category, but then again, so would nearly every piece of software I use to some degree. Who voted for this article to be featured, anyway? Just another excuse for pointless debate...

Re:

Don't forget to add almost all of the Adobe products. The splash screens contain links and almost all of the help topics are adware.

If you really don't want adware, just unplug that RJ45 ethernet cable on the back.

Instant...no adware!

Sliverlight Prompts

Sure, why not? I have been using Microsoft TechNet for a while now, and I kept getting these pop-ip prompts to install something called "Silverlight" just about every time. I have to use TechNet to do my job, so I finally just relented and hit the "OK" button.

Maybe Microsoft should come up with a new logo program: "Microsoft adware Aware"

Search the internet

Also uses I.E. when Firefox is the default (in win2k at least)

It drives me nuts because my boss *always* uses that instead of clicking the FF icon which is hindering my attempts to improve the workflow.

Re:

Back in the NT days I found a great solution to this problem. I don't know if it will still work on XP and Vista or not, might need a little tweaking.

1. Get a copy of the ubiquitous "Hello World" program, in any language for which you have a compiler.
2. Compile it.
3. Rename the resulting file "iexplore.exe".
4. Copy it to the directory where the real iexplore.exe resides, thus nullifying any calls to Internut Exploder from anywhere.
5. Copy the file to your boss's computer, thereby forcing him to use Firefox.

Re:

And then the boss complains to the IT person that the computer is broken. The IT grunt can't figure it out - maybe it is a virus? Run the virus software! it didn't fix it! Hmm! Well, this computer is broken, we need to buy a new one.

Don't laugh, I saw this kind of thing happen.

--jeffk++

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I would have thought the BOFH would have a lower /. id :o

Re:

Better yet, write iexplorer.exe to call firefox.exe. That's what I do. Any attempts to call IE either through a shortcut, or from within an application (Quickbooks does the same. It's more adware than the latest Office) will cause Firefox to fire.

Maybe Desparationware

MS sees the handwriting on the wall.

Warren Buffett saw it back in the early 90s when he said he wouldn't invest in Microsoft, because he didn't see a profitable business model (long term...Buffett's method).

Desperation is driving MS to use everything they can to continue the profit line, including using acquisitions to get what they couldn't create.

I don't have anything bad to say about MS, and use some of their products, but given their CEO's reputation and his lack of experience in any other large company, & changing FOSS world, I have this gut feel that says MS is going to have a REAL HARD time expanding its yearly sales and profits.

The Year of Office 2007

MS sees the handwriting on the wall.
Desperation is driving MS to use everything they can to continue the profit line
I have this gut feel that says MS is going to have a REAL HARD time expanding its yearly sales and profits.

67 cents of every new retail dollar spent on PC software goes to MS Office.

Through end of November, U.S. retail PC software sales are up 10.3 percent year over year as measured in dollar volume, according to NPD. By comparison, Office sales are up 50.7 percent, by the same measure and in the same time frame. Office sales are so big, they make calculating broader PC software retail sales difficult. The "magnitude of Office sales relative to the rest of the PC software market is phenomenal. It's the massively huge tail wagging the dog." Retail Black Friday sales of Mac Office were up 215.8 percent year over year. While Mac Office generated blowout sales on Black Friday, Office 2007 sales growth was exceptionally good, too. Year-over-year U.S. retail Black Friday sales of Office were up 65.8 percent, as measured in dollars. The Year of Office 2007 [microsoft-watch.com]

Microsoft's profits are up 79%:

For the quarter that ended Dec. 31, profit rose to $4.71 billion, or 50 cents per share, from $2.63 billion, or 26 cents per share the previous year. Analysts polled by Thomson Financial had forecast a profit of 46 cents per share. Revenue rose 31 percent to $16.37 billion from $12.5 billion in the year-ago quarter, ahead of the analysts' prediction of $15.95 billion in sales.

{and, in what must be the understatement of the year]

"It looks like a very nice report," said Sarah Friar, an analyst for Goldman Sachs. Microsoft Corp. earnings leap 79 percent [statesman.com]

I was sorely tempted to give my response a flamebait title like "The Geek Turns Delusional."

I won't disguise my opinion here that the Geek's increasingly frantic retreat from reality has been the Slashdot story since the posting of Microsoft's second quarter results.

The CDW poll points to a softening of enterprise IT negative attitudes toward Vista. Familiarity, it seems, has bred content: IT departments are happier with Vista's features, particularly in the area of security, and less concerned about the hardware costs of Vista than they were a year ago. Another year will bring further declines in the relative cost of PC hardware -- and make a lot of corporate desktop hardware look even more antique. Only a major economic downturn would be likely to derail current estimates of another strong year for PC sales, so even if Vista remains tied to hardware sales it would do well, and corporate upgrades could finally kick in as old hardware is upgraded. This has been a year when Vista has had its rough edges knocked off, and the marketplace has adjusted its expectations. By Vista's next birthday it should be more differentiated and acceptable for both its consumer and business marketplaces. Assessing Windows Vista On Its First Anniversary [informationweek.com]

Give me a break.

An OpenOffice advocacy site talking shit about Microsoft Office? Didn't see that one coming. But I guess Slashdot just has to get their Two Minutes Hate from somewhere...

Of course if this were a Microsoft Office advocacy site talking shit about OpenOffice we would have the FUD-Nazis screaming at the top of their lungs.

But honestly, I can't make myself care about the hypocrisy anymore; I am tired and bored of it even more than I am tired and bored of the whole Roger Clemens thing.

Back on-topic for a second, "adware" is not really a useful term as it encompasses a number of different things, some of which are not malicious and others which are. As long as Microsoft discloses what the software is doing then there really isn't any malicious intent.

trolls gone wild

this is possibly the most incendiary, blatant attempt at microsoft-bashing that ive seen on slashdot. i mean... come on...

Re:

Yes, this was pretty bad and a blatant attempt at getting hits.

I wonder if Soulskill is Zonk's sock-puppet.

It's been a trend for years. Worse then even MS..

..is Intuit. Each year if you upgrade your Quickbooks, Intuit spends more effect and intrusiveness trying to up sell you on features and services related to their software. It has become so infuriating that I refuse to upgrade until I have no choice at all, in hopes someone will come up with something better that is functional enough to make me happy.

A bit biased, perhaps?

They're looking at Office 2003, when the latest version of Office is 2007. In 2007, Firefox loaded every time I went to a link, whether in Office, via an Office dialog, or through Office help.

The article states, "it is unusual to require cookies or to use them in a desktop application", yet Office Online is the only part of Office that requires cookies. This doesn't seem that strange to me: no local features require them.

I wasn't able to find any ads in Office 2007, but because I'm running the latest version, none will probably show up until the next version of Office is released. Showing a couple of ad links at the bottom of the help text, and only after the user goes into help, stretches the definition of Adware a bit.

Java does it...

I gotta note here that when I was installing the latest Java SDK a while back, the installer had a banner ad for OpenOffice.org. I have seen some of the described adware behavior in Office 2007 - most notably, it linked me to an official PDF converter at one point - but that was somewhat less blatant than the OOo one.

All I know is...

if Microsoft doesn't do something about these software fractions, there is no way they will ever become number one in office suites. Windows ME, Windows 2000? Windows Messenger, MSN Messenger, Windows Live Messenger? Microsoft Office, Microsoft Works? Rover, Clippy? People will become so confused they will evenutally just switch to Linux in frustration and disgust. Two days later they have a brain hemorrhage an die.

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NO NO

EMACS forever

Re:

EMACS sucks monkey-balls...., Real MEN use VI. http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/real_programmers.png [xkcd.com]

Re:Use Open Office

REAL men use butterflies!

Re:

Asking questions isn't FUD.

Your bias opinion that attempts to reinforce the view that OO.org is shit on the other hand might be classed as FUD. If you had said, "Is OO.org shitty?" I might have taken a different point of view when writing this comment.

Re:I am shocked and apalled!

I'm still wondering how many years this stupid tagging beta thing will be left running until the Powers That Be realize it's only another vehicle to make stupid (and occasionally clever) commentary, and is never actually used for "tagging".

Re:

I opened up Word 2007. Typed in a URL. Right clicked, selected "Open Hyperlink" and you know what?

It opened in Firefox. Once again, Slashdot hasn't verified the info they decide to publish. Perhaps it opens IE for some people - I'm using Vista, so maybe the URL handler has a subtle difference to XP. In any case, the article is still flawed.

But is the article really flawed? Tell us, did you check what the info published was about, "clicking advertising links in Office will bring up Internet Explorer"?

This