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Digg.com Attempts To Suppress HD-DVD Revolt
Posted by
kdawson
on Tue May 01, 2007 11:26 PM
from the toothpaste-back-in-the-tube dept.
from the toothpaste-back-in-the-tube dept.
fieryprophet writes "An astonishing number of stories related to HD-DVD encryption keys have gone missing in action from digg.com, in many cases along with the account of the diggers who submitted them. Diggers are in open revolt against the moderators and are retaliating in clever and inventive ways. At one point, the entire front page comprised only stories that in one way or another were related to the hex number. Digg users quickly pointed to the HD DVD sponsorship of Diggnation, the Digg podcast show. Search digg for HD-DVD song lyrics, coffee mugs, shirts, and more for a small taste of the rebellion." Search Google for a broader picture; at this writing, about 283,000 pages contain the number with hyphens, and just under 10,000 without hyphens. There's a song. Several domain names including variations of the number have been reserved. Update: 05/02 05:44 GMT by J : New blog post from Kevin Rose of Digg to its users: "We hear you."
Related Stories
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Censoring a Number 1046 comments
Rudd-O writes "Months after successful discovery of the HD-DVD processing key, an unprecedented campaign of censorship, in the form of DMCA takedown notices by the MPAA, has hit the Net. For example Spooky Action at a Distance was killed. More disturbingly, my story got Dugg twice, with the second wave hitting 15,500 votes, and today I found out it had simply disappeared from Digg. How long until the long arm of the MPAA gets to my own site (run in Ecuador) and the rest of them holding the processing key? How long will we let rampant censorship go on, in the name of economic interest?" How long before the magic 16-hex-pairs number shows up in a comment here?
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EFF and Dvorak Blame the Digg Revolt On Lawyers 262 comments
enharmonix writes "A bit of an update on the recent Digg revolt over AACS. The NYTimes has taken notice and written quite a decent article that actually acknowledges that the take-down notices amount to censorship and documents instances of the infamous key appearing in purely expressive form. I was pleased to see the similarity to 2600 and deCSS was not lost on the Times either. More interesting is that the EFF's Fred von Lohmann blames the digg revolt on lawyers. And in an opinion piece, John Dvorak expands on that theme."
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I'd like to say... (Score:5, Funny)
Your wonderful little Digg isn't looking so wonderful now - is it?
In comparison to Digg's censorship, slashdot has the hex key as a story tag. [slashdot.org]
Re:I'd like to say... (Score:5, Interesting)
Who'd have thought, they would use all that Web 2.0 wisdom of the crowds stuff to hide the fact they censor everything.
kdawson, and the old Taco himself, we salute you.
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Re:P.S. Digg This (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:P.S. Digg This (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:I'd like to say... (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:I'd like to say... (Score:5, Funny)
- Al Gore
+++AH*$*&*^!NA(*$&!(HDSF....[ NO CARRIER ]
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Re:I'd like to say... (Score:5, Funny)
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Credibility (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Credibility (Score:5, Insightful)
'"intellectual property" - The distorting and confusing term did not arise by accident. Companies that gain from the confusion promoted it... eject the narrow perspectives and simplistic picture the term "intellectual property" suggests. Consider each of these issues separately, in its fullness, and you have a chance of considering them well.' -- RMS
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Re:Credibility (Score:5, Funny)
Digg is a website that is only as good as the users that contribute to it. Its user base is a bunch of people that... well... lets face it, watch Diggnation.
I rest my case.
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Re:Credibility (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Credibility (Score:5, Informative)
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Re:Credibility (Score:5, Interesting)
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Re:Credibility (Score:5, Insightful)
As though the number actually mattered anyhow. The only people who will use it don't need it posted.
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Ah, how timely (Score:5, Insightful)
"Anyone attempting to generate random numbers by deterministic means is, of course, living in a state of sin." -- John Von Neumann
Indeed.
Re:Ah, how timely (Score:5, Informative)
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Toothpaste.. (Score:5, Funny)
MPAA Lesson of the day.
0011000000111001010001100011100100110001001100010
Re:Toothpaste.. (Score:5, Funny)
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Just so you know (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Just so you know (Score:5, Funny)
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Digg management are full of hypocrites (Score:5, Interesting)
Today it's different for some reason. One of the managers posted a justification on the official blog [digg.com]:
Funny stuff.
Re:Digg management are full of hypocrites (Score:5, Insightful)
The DMCA rule is (loosely paraphrased): if a site doesn't censor its users posts and implements an automatic takedown system with notification to the user, then it's safe from copyright infringement claims (safe harbor provision). By doing this, the copyright claimants must ask for each offending comment to be removed individually, and each time some comment is removed, the user who posted the comment receives a realtime notification and he can decide that he's not infringing anything and is allowed to put the post back up. After that, the post cannot be removed again, unless a court looks at the case and makes a ruling.
If however a site censors or modifies its users posts, then it is effectively taking editorial ownership and *that* is when the site becomes potentially liable for copyright infringement claims by third parties.
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You can't ban a number. Period. (Score:5, Insightful)
Digg is a piece of shit (Score:5, Interesting)
Also, you can get a perm ban from digg if you use the star of david as your "digg icon"... no kidding!
Honestly curious... (Score:5, Interesting)
Digg actually posted a reply to the community on their blog here [digg.com].
What I'm honestly curious about is this: Is this numeric string code copyrighted? Where is the copyright filed, if so? Or is it a trade secret? Do trade secrets need to be filed or declared somehow? Is a trade secret intellectual property that must be removed when a theatening (maybe DMCA) notice is sent?
I'm nowhere near understanding the complexities of the current intellectual property legal codes in the USA, let alone how they actually apply in this situation. All I see is hysteria.
Re:Honestly curious... (Score:5, Informative)
Standard Disclaimer: IANAL -- By United States Copyright law, and I believe the laws of all signees of the Berne Convention (163 nations), a work is "copyrighted" the instant it is recorded in some tangible form. There is no need for it to be registered with any legal body. The United States Copyright Office does offer a registration service, but it's more a matter of convenience than of necessity.
Now, a sixteen digit hexidecimal number almost certainly fails to meet the minimum requirements for novelty and authorship (whatever the hell such qualities are referred to legally) and thus is not under the protection of copyright. However, the distribution of encryption codes undoubtedly falls afoul of the draconion terms of the DMCA, which has basically nothing to do with copyright.
The US Copyright Office runs a fairly informative website that's well worth the 10 or so minutes it takes to skim --> http://www.copyright.gov/ [copyright.gov]
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Wikipedia (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Wikipedia (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:Wikipedia (Score:5, Insightful)
So what's the next wiki that's going to take over? Cowboynealpedia?
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Quick to rise.... (Score:5, Funny)
Digg meltdown (Score:5, Insightful)
Just my opinion, but I don't see how Digg can come out of this with any credibility left. Was this ever about the DMCA? Perhaps in the beginning, but it's turned into a battle of wills between the Digg admins and its user base, and, even if the admins could somehow manage to magically obliterate every article on this subject, they're going to have a hard time explaining themselves to the user base, who are, by and large, mad as hell.
And to those who are, indeed, mad as hell, consider what you will do after this incident is over. Kevin and the other admins may indeed fear a lawsuit if they don't take these articles down. Is that wrong, or is the law that allows this possibility the thing that is wrong? It's easy to sit there and paste line after line of numbers, but what would you do in the face of a lawsuit, even if it it's a ridiculous lawsuit supported by a law crafted just for this kind of abuse? You're taking action now, but will you get organized to push for real change tomorrow, the day after, and the day after that?
Beyond the hex (Score:5, Interesting)
People don't seem to understand that this goes beyond a silly little hex key. The key has been out for months. A new one will come and it will also be broken. This is not about that. This is about consumers finally standing up against the bullshit being fed to them by media giants. They crossed the line today when they forced digg to censor user generated content, not only articles but also comments and somewhat related content.
As a consumer i am sick and tired of getting fabricated excuses as to why i can't play what I've bought wherever the hell i want. NO, i don't care if you keep making up the story that DRM is to protect yourself from piracy. I don't buy it. DRM will be broken no matter what. DRM is there to ensure your revenue stream by controlling where I can play the content. Now you go and censor my news source giving a bullshit excuse that a randomly generated hex number is some how your IP? You install rootkits in my computer, You stop me from using my content I bought the way I want? pretend to own _MY_ hardware? Enough of that bullshit.
This is a revolt [facebook.com] against the greediness and blatant disrespect for the consumer that comes from the mpaa/riaa.
SAVE THE NUMBERS, SAVE THE WORLD. REMEMBER The 1st of MAY.
Re:Beyond the hex (Score:5, Insightful)
No. Those are nerds in their basement who feel safe in the anonymousity of the web who would shit their pants if they tried to stand up for the same issue in real life.
If anything, online petitions are such furor have proven time after time that most (but not all, see Sony rootkin fiasco) of the time, when people complain on the web, nothing happens.
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Screw digg! (Score:5, Insightful)
Hey, on a completely unrelated note, can anyone point me to that copy of book 3 of Scientology that was posted here a few years back?
kthnx.
Re:Screw digg! (Score:5, Insightful)
Also, Slashdot also provided a detailed writeup on what had happened, why they were taking down the said comments (which happened to paste entire texts) and gave some pointers on finding the said information.
Which is completely different from Digg removing the story and not telling anyone about it (until of course the users discovered it). And their response was an after-the-fact event, made worse by the fact that Digg receives sponsorship for Diggnation from the very folks this thing seems to piss off.
The two are completely different, and Slashdot did it right. Digg did not do it right and the users are revolting. More power to them.
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With Apologies To Allan Sherman (Score:5, Interesting)
At any rate, this is a parody of Allan Sherman's tirade against all-digit dialing, "The Let's All Call Up AT&T And Protest To The President March". By staggering coincidence, the original was inspired by someone posting it in on USENET in the .mp3.comedy group. Weren't me, although my parents turned me onto Mr. Sherman's parodies by giving me their vinyl original that they'd owned since before I was born.
By even more coincidence, you can sing it as either: "Let's all post the Processing Key and fuck AACSLA" March, for rather obvious reasons, or the "Let's all post To D-I-G-G and say 'fark you' to Kevin Rose" March, (on account of every single story on digg.com's front page, as the original poster already linked to in TFA)
By utterly unsurprising coincidence, and like every filk I write here, this parody is in the public domain, and you can sing it however you like, although in this case it'll probably be funnier if you keep the numbers the way they was written.
AACS VERSION:
It's the "Let's all post the processing key and fuck AACSLA!" march!
Watch their lawyers worry and fidget,
Cease and DE-sisting sixteen hex digits!
So let's all post the processing key and fuck AACSLA, march!
So protest! (so protest!)
Do your best! (do your best!)
Let us show them that we post in unity.
If they won't (if they won't!),
Change the rules (change the rules!),
Let's buy our movies from another monopoly!
Let's all post the processing key and fuck AACSLA march.
Let us wake their landsharks from slumber,
Get a pencil, I'll give you their number.
It's Nine, Eff-nine, One-one, Two, Nine-D,
SevenTY-four, Eee-three, Five-B... (dash!)
Dee-eight, four-one, five-six, Cee-five,
Sixty-three, fifty-six, eight-eight... (hyphen!)
And now that you're on the right road,
Don't forget to end with Cee-0h!
Here's to freedom and fair use! 09F9! 1102s!
Watch your HD-DVD! 9D74! E35B!
Let's keep that 16-byte key alive!
D841! 56C5! AACS is totally broke! 6356! 88C0! Hooray!
To arnezami's mental fiber,
We'll erect a triumphal arch!
For the "let's all post the processing key and fuck AACSLA!" march.
And since we're long (about 2 and a half months!) past the point that a parody of the AACS key wouldn't be complete without the
DIGG VERSION [digg.com]:
It's the "Let's all post To D-I-G-G and say 'fark you' to Kevin Rose" march!
Watch him worry, watch as he fidgets,
As his users post sixteen hex digits!
So let's all post to D-I-G-G and say 'fuck you' to Kevin Rose march.
So protest! (so protest!)
Do your best! (do your best!)
Let us show him that we digg in unity.
If he won't (if he won't!),
Change the rules (change the rules!),
Let's take our pageviews to Slashdot's company!
Let's all post to D-I-G-G and say 'fuck you' to Kevin Rose march.
Let us wake him up in his slumber.
Get a pencil, I'll give you his number.
It's Nine, Eff-nine, One-one, Two, Nine-D,
SevenTY-four, Eee-three, Five-B... (dash!)
Dee-eight, four-one, five-six, Cee-five,
Sixty-three, fifty-six, eight-eight... (hyphen!)
And now that you're on the right road,
Don't forget to end with Cee-0h!
Here's to freedom and fair use! 09F9! 1102s!
Watch your HD-DVD! 9D74! E35B!
Let's keep that 16-byte key alive! D841! 56C5!
AACS is totally broke! 6356! 88C0! Hooray!
To arnezami's mental fiber,
We'll erect a triumphal arch!
For the let's all post to D-I-G-G and say 'fuck you' to Kevin Rose march.
And don't make me deal with this "Your comment has too few characters per line (currently 35.7)", because it's a long pair of
On-topic comment (Score:5, Interesting)
Whose bright idea was it to use the same 128-bit symmetric key for every DVD ??
NB. Please don't mod this off-topic just because I said it wasn't.
it's called the "Streisand effect" (Score:5, Informative)
This isn't about the number anymore (Score:5, Insightful)
While they can do what they want on their own site, it is more a matter of credibility than anything else right now. The whole revolt isn't even about the HD-DVD key. What has people feeling burnt is the fact that Digg purports to be about free and open user-driven content in a democratic setting, and what we're seeing here is a cabal of admins who are subverting the entire process of the system to suit their own whims.
Now as I said, it's not even about the 128-bit key anymore. And it's not about the DMCA or its merits(or lack thereof). The problem goes much deeper than that, and the encryption key debacle was more of a catalyst for what the more perceptive Diggers knew was going on all along but never really had any proof of. See, it's not just any posts containing the number they're removing. The Digg admins are removing and banning any discussion on the topic, even legitimate discussions on the ramifications of censorship in the user-driven internet era. Quite a few legitimate and thought-provoking discussions got clobbered when the admins got ban-happy today.
They have unwittingly set themselves up as a prime example of what can go wrong when marketing dollars(it is being reported that the HD-DVD guys throw ad dollars at Diggnation) meet the voice of the people. It is now being said that the Digg admins are stepping in and removing "objectionable" content when it conflicts with the will of their advertisers or displays any anti-Digg sentiment. While I'm sure this is good business sense, it's a very ugly way of being outed as a shill and a fraud to your readers. Digg is supposed to be the underdog who fought the status-quo and beat overwhelming odds against "the system". Now people are finding out that Digg has become the system, and they're a bit disillusioned that their hero Mr. Rose is just like any other business man who is out to make a buck. But like I said, the admins of Digg are obviously free to do with their site as they see fit. But Digg is only as good as the people who contribute to it. Kiss them good-bye and you kiss Digg good-bye.
This makes me laugh and angry at the same time (Score:5, Insightful)
A song, a t-shirt, a commercial, blog title, html color coding scheme, a bad poem, street directions, website name, and many others...
This is EXACTLY why monitoring private communications will never stop covert communications. This is exactly why the DRM won't work, why the relative Patriot Act efforts will fail and why monitoring doesn't work. The fact that the bad guys know there is monitoring will ensure that they use something so covert that all of us will see it and not know it, which is BTW very LOW tech, so won't be caught by hitech monitoring systems.
Whatever you think of Digg users, they have demonstrated an important thing. When someone needs to communicate, censorship will not work, the DMCA will fail to stop it, the Patriot Act cannot prevent the damage done and no new laws will fix this basic failure of preventative control.
Any message that wants to get out will get out, be it a key, a program, or just a rebellious thought. Censorship does not work.
Sure, there are those who pedantically will tell me it seems to be working in countries like China, but even there I think all they have done is slow down the information flow rather than cut it off. If writers in China want to post to blogs, they can get someone in Sweeden to write / host a dtmf translation program that takes a phone call, translates the DTMF and posts the information to the appropriate blog site/account. This would bypass all the censorship efforts to date.
The plus side of this is that along the way, someone somewhere is going to find innovative ways to do things. My bet is that it will always be those that want to be uncensored that innovate most.
Re:Was this duped on purpose? (Score:5, Insightful)
Slashdot deserves a big thumbs-up from the tech community for NOT being one of those sites!
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Re:Was this duped on purpose? (Score:5, Informative)
It's not.
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Re:Before this gets out of hand again... (Score:5, Insightful)
The MPAA (or whoever) is telling Digg to take down those stories.
They have the authority to do this thanks to the DMCA.
The DMCA is a law enacted by who? That's right, the government of the United States of America.
So who is threatening the people who run Digg with jail time? That's right, the United States of America.
How is that not censorship?
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Re:Before this gets out of hand again... (Score:5, Informative)
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Re:Before this gets out of hand again... (Score:5, Informative)
You might want to try that one again chief, the act of censorship isn't only carried out by governments. By your logic media private outlets couldn't censor information.
See the following to get a fucking clue:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship [wikipedia.org]
n. censor 1. A person authorized to examine books, films, or other material and to remove or suppress what is considered morally, politically, or otherwise objectionable.
tr.v. censored, censoring, censors
To examine and expurgate.
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Intriguing. (Score:5</